Join Us in Switzerland!
Your transition from high school to university is all about new possibilities. At Webster we believe every student has the potential for individual excellence, and we support each student's path to achievement. On campus in Geneva, you will find dynamic and challenging academic programs — as well as student services and activities designed to help you succeed.
Your journey begins with our admissions team's support. We are here to help with questions about the admissions process, and general questions about majors, our campus and living in Switzerland.
This page includes some important details and resources as you start your application. You can also contact us at any time for specific questions along the way.
Undergraduate (Bachelor) Admissions Information
Thank you for your interest in Webster's Bachelor programs! Before you get started with your online application, Please review the following information carefully. Any missing information will result in a delay to the official decision.
Rolling Admissions
Webster Geneva Campus offers multiple start dates each year. Our primary intake of students takes place in late August, which is the preferred starting date for high school students — however, under certain circumstances we will also admit freshmen for courses that begin in October and January. Contact us for more information.
Note: For most Webster scholarships, the deadline is May 3.
You will be prompted to choose your intended start date when you begin the online application form.
Important: Applicants who are not Swiss residents and not carrying EU citizenship will need to enter Switzerland with a student visa issued by the Swiss consulate. Be sure to review our application calendar and deadlines information.
How to Apply
You can start your Webster application account online or submit an application via the Common App. After you submit the online form, you can also email any missing documentation to geneva.admissions@webster.edu. Transfer students with prior university experience should visit the Transfer Admissions page for instructions.
Your online application will prompt you for:
- Your high school transcript. The transcript(s) MUST document a minimum of the three most recent years of study, along with your grades. If your transcript is not provided in English by your school, we will need official English translations (certified by an accredited translator or notarized by a competent legal authority). Your most current transcript is adequate for a provisional admissions decision, even if you did not yet graduate or sit for final exams. A copy is sufficient for an admissions decision, but your admission will be provisional until we receive originals directly from your school or in person on campus.
- Proof of English proficiency. This can be from an approved test such as IELTS, TOEFL or an approved online exam like Duolingo. If your school instruction was in English, waivers for the English proficiency may be possible (see English proficiency section, below).
- A 300- to 400-word essay that demonstrates your motivation, commitment and readiness for university life. A good example would elaborate on your reasons for applying to the program and Webster Geneva Campus in particular.
- Two recommendation letters from high school teachers (one can be from your high school counselor).
- A scan of your passport biographical page (plus a copy of any current residence permit or visa for Switzerland, if you are already a resident here). If you do not yet have a passport, we request a scan of your relevant ID card.
The SAT or ACT examination is not required. Webster Geneva Campus is "test-optional" with respect to these U.S. admissions examinations. If you have SAT or ACT exam scores, however, we welcome them as part of your application. Your scores can still be used in support of your application, either to demonstrate adequate English proficiency, or as additional consideration when we assess your application for merit-based scholarship support.
NOTE: All application documents submitted to Webster Geneva Campus become the property of the university and cannot be returned or reproduced. Be sure to keep a copy of all documents submitted.
Eligibility includes successful graduation from an accredited secondary institution with a diploma program recognized for entry to university-level studies, such as the U.S. High School Diploma, the Swiss Certificat de maturité (cantonal/federal), the French baccalaureate, other European baccalaureate programs (such as the British GCE Advanced Level, etc), and the International Baccalaureate. For those applicants from beyond the U.S., Switzerland or EU system: a secondary diploma that is recognized for university-level admission from an institution that is approved by the national/state Ministry of Higher Education.
Of course, you may apply before your graduation, and our offer of admission will be provisional, if based on unofficial copies of your credentials, or if it is still pending your final graduation. Full admission is then awarded only once all required final, official records are received.
Admissions Criteria
As we review your application materials to make an admissions decision, we look holistically at your candidacy. This includes your secondary school academic performance (GPA), including the course and rigor of your curriculum, your recommendation letter(s) and your documented English language proficiency. We also consider your personal motivation, commitment and readiness for university life to be a very important part of our decision process.
Admission will be considered for those who have a minimum Grade Point Average (GPA) a 2.5 on a 4 point scale, or its equivalent in other grading systems (academic achievement in programs that use a grading or assessment scale other than a 4.0 is evaluated in the context of the relevant academic system). Those who earn 3.5/4.0 scale may be considered for an invitation to the Scholars Program.
English Language Proficiency: all candidates must demonstrated capacity in English, either through an approved standard English-language examination at a level that meets the university standard, or through an approved waiver (see English Language Proficiency section of this page).
What is the GPA?
Grade Point Average (GPA) is calculated on a 4.0 scale at most American universities. Our admissions department converts international grades into an equivalent on a 4.0 scale during our assessment of your application.
GPA Conversion Chart
This is provided to help applicants estimate their equivalent GPA. Our Admissions Committee and transcript evaluation specialist will review your institution's grading system (and level of the curriculum), and calculate an equivalent GPA on a 4.0 equivalency when we review your application.
If your Grading System is one of the following... | The estimated minimal performance for admission is equivalent to... |
---|---|
Scale of 4.0 | 2.50 GPA or higher (3.50 for Scholars Program) |
Over an "A - F" scale** | An average of about a B- (A- for Scholars Program) |
International baccalauréat (IB) | IB Diploma with 24 points (32+ for Scholars Program) |
Swiss maturité | Passing (earning diploma) is sufficient for admission* |
French baccalaureate | Passing (earning diploma) is sufficient for admission* |
A - Levels | 3 A levels with a C or higher* |
AS Levels | 5 AS levels with a C or higher |
On a 100% scale** | Average of 80% or higher |
*Specific courses and grades earned in these programs will determine the applicable credits for advanced standing credits (see below).
**Depends on national/institutional scaling system. This will be reviewed by the Webster admissions team/evaluation specialist to estimate equivalencies on a 4.0 scale, before an admissions decision is made.
Admission Decisions
Admissions decisions are made on a rolling basis, following a review by our admissions committee. So students are typically notified within about 10 days (two weeks maximum) after all supporting documentation is received.
Provisional Admission: You may be offered direct admission on a provisional basis, if you apply and meet our general admissions criteria before you receive your high school diploma. This allows you to register and enroll at Webster; however, your admission status will be contingent upon successfully completing your secondary education and providing us the final documentation during your first term of study.
Conditional Admission: Exceptions can be made to the 2.5/4.0 GPA by the committee when considering a holistic look at the candidate's portfolio (curriculum, grades, motivation and recommendations). Some candidates demonstrate inconsistencies in their early secondary performance yet may predict to be successful at Webster, with our systems of support for their transition to university. In such cases, exceptional admission may be offered between 2.0 and 2.5 GPA with certain conditions, with additional advising services are made available, etc, to encourage early success at the university.
ESL Admission: Those who meet the academic criteria for admission but whose English language scores are slightly below the minimum may be invited to enroll in our English-as-Second-Language program. This is a one-semester transition experience, guided by professors and academic advisors. ESL courses are university-level (earning university credits); they will count as electives which can apply towards graduation from any major degree program. Therefore, there is no additional cost to students who enroll as ESL, and they graduate in the same number of semesters of study.
Advanced Standing — Credits for Your Prior Learning
Webster Geneva Campus recognizes advanced-level work in several ways. Credits for consideration include:
- International Advanced Standing from specific national programs (various)
- Advanced Placement Credits (AP)
- International Baccalaureate (IB)
- General Certificate Exams (GCE)
- Global Assessment Certificate (GAC)
- Accredited University Transfer Credits
See more about Advanced Standing Credits, which can grant up to 32 credits (one year) of study towards your degree.
Following your admission: if your school curriculum includes external examinations such as the International Baccalaureate, Advanced Placement exams, Swiss Maturité, French Baccalaureate exams, A-Levels, etc, we will eventually require your official records for final admission and to assess your transferable credits when you enroll at Webster. Predicted IB grades or unofficial copies of transcripts or exam results are adequate during the application process for the provisional admissions decision.
English proficiency can be demonstrated through one of the following approved English examinations, or through an approved waiver (see below):
English Proficiency Exams Accepted | Minimum Accepted Score for Admission (see also Waiver section, below) |
||
---|---|---|---|
ESL Program | Bachelor | Master | |
TOEFL paper-based | 523 | 550 | 550 |
TOEFL internet based (ibT) | 69 | 80 | 80 |
IELTS Overall score | 5.5* | 6.0** | 6.0** |
Duolingo (online) | 101 | 110 | 110 |
Versant (Pearson Online) | 57 | 68 | 68 |
iTEP (online) | 3.5 | 3.7 | 3.7 |
E3PT (online) | 57 | 70 | 70 |
CEFR (Common European Framework of Reference for Languages) SELT — 4 subjects (not the 2-subject test) |
B2 communicator high pass | C1 mastery high pass | C1 mastery high pass |
Cambridge English Exam*** numerical scores required *** does not include Business English exam |
154 | 169 | 169 |
* all sections (listening, reading, writing, and speaking) should be at least 5.0
** all sections (listening, reading, writing, and speaking) should be at least 5.5
Waivers of English for Bachelor Degree Applicants
- English Country Waivers
Webster waives English for bachelor applicants if students studied three years at an accredited high school in; Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Canada (except Quebec), Fiji, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Ireland, Jamaica, Kenya, Liberia, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritius, Micronesia, New Zealand, Nigeria, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Africa, St. Helena, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago, Uganda, United Kingdom, United States, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.
If a student has completed three or more years of study in an English-medium high school or university-level academic program in a country other than ones listed above, they may request a waiver. For any queries on waivers, please email the Admissions Team at geneva.admissions@webster.edu.
Webster also waives English for transfer and masters applicants who attended an accredited high school or university in English from these national waiver countries. - International Baccalaureate diploma applicants from an English-based school may also be eligible for waivers.
For an IB curriculum from a non-English-language school, students can earn a waiver with
- HL English A — min. score 4
- HL English B — min. score 5
- SL English A — min. score 5
- SL English B — min. score 6
- British System / GCE "A-Levels": English-language Exam score of C or higher. (AS level does not satisfy the requirement.)
- American Admissions Examinations: Webster Geneva Campus is "test optional" for the standard American exams. Yet applicants
in the U.S. or abroad can also waive English with one of the following standard American
university admissions tests and scores:
- ACT — a composite score of 23 or higher
- SAT — a minimum of 450 on the Evidence-based Reading and Writing Section
Waivers of English for University Transfer Applicants
Waivers are granted for transfer students who otherwise meet the bachelor English requirements based on their documented secondary qualification, as per above.
Waivers are also granted for transfers from U.S. universities with at least one academic year of university-level coursework (~32 credit hours over the period of two semesters) conducted in English at a regionally-accredited U.S. institution of higher learning within the last three years (ESL coursework does not qualify).
Waivers of English for Master's or Graduate Certificate Applicants
Graduation from an accredited U.S. university or an institutionally-accredited university in a national English Waiver country (see above) can earn a waiver of the English proficiency requirement. Those who studied advanced English and can demonstrate the same proficiency for secondary school waivers, above can also choose to submit their high school records during the admissions process.
Full-time Bachelor Tuition Fees
Tuition rates for the 2024-2025 Academic Year are as follows:
CHF 17,500 flat rate, per 16-week semester*
What is included in full-time tuition?
- All required textbooks are included in the tuition fees, as well as online access to the student portal, electronic library, personal Webster email accounts, etc.
- Academic Resources support, including Academic Advising, the Writing Center, peer tutoring programs, etc.
- Student Affairs activities, including most University-sponsored and Student Government Association-sponsored events (on-campus and/or online).
- Career Services support, including individual coaching for CV writing, internship and job search support, interview preparation and careers events on campus.
- Student Counseling Services, upon request, for individual support if/when needed.
- Campus facilities, including access to the computer labs, library, fitness center and media lab.
Excluded from tuition: Accommodations, meal plans, travel or personal expenses. Also, campus parking and optional fees for course electives that require additional media equipment or travel are excluded.
This flat-fee semester tuition rate permits students to register for 12 to 18 U.S. credit hours per semester (the equivalent of about four to six courses; most courses carry 3 credits). A typical bachelor's student takes 15 credit hours (five courses) per semester: this is the rate of progress necessary for students to graduate on time. The flat-fee rate allows for up to six courses per semester if students wish to advance more quickly toward graduation and have the academic potential to do so.
* This rate applies to the full 16-week semesters in Fall and Spring. Students who enroll for eight-week half-semester courses (first-time students joining in October or March, for example) are invoiced at the part-time rate of tuition for that specific eight-week term. Subsequent semesters of 16 weeks are then invoiced as per above.
Part-time Bachelor Tuition Rate
Tuition for those taking less than 12 credits in a given semester is billed at the per-credit-hour rate. The tuition rate for part-time students in 2024-2025 is CHF 1,100 per credit hour, equivalent to CHF 3,300 per 3-credit course. Those who enroll in multiple part-time courses in a given eight-week term are still eligible for the services listed above.
Estimating Your Annual Expenses
Webster Geneva Campus’s approximate educational expenses in Swiss Francs (CHF), including direct and indirect expenses, are:
- Full-time tuition (Fall and Spring): CHF 35,000
- University Housing: CHF 9,660-15,000 (varies by student choice*)
- Food: CHF 6,000-8,000 (varies, based on student choice**)
- Student health insurance: CHF 1,000
- Local transportation: CHF 500
* First-year students are required to live on campus in the Living and Learning Center for Fall and Spring semesters (CHF 9,660 total), unless they will live with immediate family in the Geneva area (an exemption request form can be approved). Registration for the Summer term is optional.
** Meal plans vary from about 3,000 CHF per semester and up; campus housing includes a small kitchenette (refrigerator and electric stove) in each room/unit.
Estimated total for one academic year (Fall and Spring), including direct and indirect expenses: CHF 52,200-59,500
Optional Summer Terms
Many students choose Summer coursework to advance their pace toward graduation, or for elective courses that may be available (including academic internships for credit). Those registering for courses in the Summer term will pay the per-credit-hour fee (as per part-time students) announced for the subsequent academic calendar year.
Payment Terms, Payment Plans and Deadlines
Students are invoiced per semester (or per eight-week term, following course registration) and are typically payable by the first week of the semester. Students/families may request a payment plan where 50% of a semester is paid before/by Week 1 and 50% by the mid-semester date.
Enrollment Deposits
After you are offered admission, a deposit of CHF 1,500 will confirm your enrollment. This deposit will confirm your plan to enroll, and permit Webster to preregister you for courses. The deposit will apply toward your first semester and will appear as a credit on your first tuition invoice.
Housing Deposits
Freshmen students are required to reside on campus. In order to reserve a place, we will kindly ask you to pay a deposit of CHF 1,000. For additional information, please see the Residential Life pages.
One Out of Every Three Undergraduate Students Receive Aid and/or Scholarship
Approximately 33% of the undergraduate student body benefits from one or more forms of financial aid or scholarship assistance to help fund their studies at Webster’s Geneva Campus.
There are various financial assistance programs for which eligible students may be considered. Depending on your demonstrated need and your academic ability, it may be possible to combine these different sources to help meet your financial needs gap (note: work-study positions may depend on your residency status in Switzerland and the EU).
1. Merit-based Academic Scholarship Awards
Higher-potential applicants who have demonstrated strong academic performance may be considered for Webster Geneva Campus's Scholars Program track. Typically, the admissions office makes recommendations to the Scholarship Committee, as part of its rolling applications review and decision process. Those whose grade point average (GPA) is about a 3.5/4.0 scale (or its equivalent in other grading systems) have the highest opportunity to earn scholarship support. Students from all nationalities can be considered for scholarships.
Individual scholarship awards range up to 30% of annual full-time tuition per year and are renewable each year provided students maintain the equivalent of a 3.5-grade point average.
The Scholars Program is invitation-only, and provides additional opportunities for advanced course work and a bachelor thesis, provided students maintain high grades during their studies. Those who complete the program earn a Scholars Program Certificate upon graduation.
Combined Award Packages
Students who earn Academic Scholarships may also combine financial aid awards. For Geneva-based funding, the maximum of combined awards from the Geneva campus is capped at about 30% of the annual full-time tuition. Note: United States citizens and U.S. Green Card holders may also be eligible for other forms of financial assistance from the U.S. Government (such as Pell Grants or Student Loans — see other special programs).
2. Need-based Financial Aid Awards
These grants are awarded in the form of a scholarship on the basis of demonstrated financial need of the student's family. There is a separate Financial Aid form for Webster Geneva Campus campus, available to those who have earned admission for a particular start date.
The Financial Aid form requests basic family income information, as well as supporting documents. Eligibility is determined based on the family’s financial ability to fund educational costs, and can range up to 30% of tuition, and are renewable each year of the student's enrollment, with some limited conditions.
3. On-Campus Work-Study
Available only to Swiss/EU citizens (or Swiss residents who are eligible to work in Switzerland). Work-study awards are a limited type of financial assistance that may permit you to work on campus up to 12 hours per week. Eligible students can earn an hourly salary that is credited towards tuition. Work-study positions at Webster include opportunities in academic departments, administrative offices, the library or in residence halls, for example. Earned pay is credited to the student tuition account. The advantages to you of working on campus go beyond financial remuneration. You will enhance your workplace skills and gain experience that you can leverage in a future job. Preference for these positions is given to students with documented financial needs.
4. Other Special Programs
U.S. Federal Aid Programs
As an accredited U.S.-based University, American citizens can use their FAFSA eligibility for small PELL Grants, Student Loans, and Family Loan programs. FAFSA applications are processed by our St. Louis campus, and in coordination with registration to Geneva-based courses, funds are disbursed through the university to the student's account at Webster in Switzerland. Learn more about the forms and procedures through our U.S. Financial Aid office on the main campus.
Webster Family Legacy Scholarship
Webster Geneva Campus offers this one-time-only CHF 2,000 award to new incoming students that have a sibling (brother or sister) currently enrolled in Webster Geneva. This award is credited towards the new student's tuition for the first semester of enrollment.
Webster Second Generation Legacy Scholarship
Webster Geneva Campus offers a CHF 2,000 yearly tuition (CHF 1,000 per semester) reduction for the direct descendants or dependent sons and/or daughters of Webster University alumni. The “Second Generation Legacy Scholarship” can be applied during the duration of a bachelor’s degree education, a maximum of four years.
Student Visas and Residence Permits
Permits and Prolongations
If you are on a current resident permit that allows full-time residency in Switzerland, you will not need to go through the full student visa process provided that you earn admission and apply to extend your permit with local authorities prior to its expiration date.
If you are an EU or EFTA citizen, you will not need a student visa to attend, yet when you arrive for New Student Orientation, we will provide you with an attestation from Webster Geneva Campus and guide you on how to declare your arrival for full-time studies to the local authorities.
Swiss Student Visas
All students from outside the European Union and EFTA member states need to make a formal application for a Swiss student visa from the Swiss Embassy or Swiss Consulate. You must complete the visa process in your home country or country of legal residence before entering Switzerland.
Tourist and/or Schengen Visas are not accepted for study purposes; Webster Geneva Campus is not authorized to register for courses under a Tourist and/or a Schengen Visa.
For the most up-to-date information or for answers to detailed questions, be sure to contact the Swiss Embassy or Swiss Consulate nearest to you, or refer to the FDFA website — selecting your country of residence.
Student Visa Application Process
Following admission and once you confirm your intention to enroll with Webster, you will need to submit your enrollment deposit (to Webster) and then proceed with the application forms and supporting documents to the Swiss Embassy or Swiss Consulate nearest to your official residence.
The student visa process is lengthy (approximately three months) and requires you to pay close attention to all pertinent details. The Swiss authorities will only consider applications that are complete, so be sure to follow the admissions office recommendations. It is extremely important to keep personal copies of all forms and documents submitted to the Swiss authorities.
Once all your documents have been submitted, the Swiss Embassy/Consulate will forward your application to the authorities here in Switzerland. The Cantonal Office of Population and Migration (immigration office) will assess your application in collaboration with the federal authorities. They will inform and notify the Swiss Embassy/Consulate in your home country about their decision, and the Swiss Embassy/Consulate will then notify you.
NOTE: During the visa process, third parties such as universities are discouraged from interfering with the authorities to speed up the process or inquire about missing documents. It is your responsibility to keep on top of your visa application process and to keep our admissions team informed about progress or any difficulties.
Upon Your Arrival: Your Swiss Student Residence Permit
All students (except Swiss citizens) enrolled in Webster Geneva Campus need to apply for a Swiss Student Residence Permit upon their arrival in Geneva. The permit can take two to three months to be issued and is valid for one year. Students must make sure to renew their permit every year before leaving for their summer or winter break. Student permit information for current students can be found on the Registrar's Office Pages.
Above is a visual of our typical academic calendar. Webster offers two Semesters of 16-weeks each (Fall and Spring), as well as an eight-week Summer term.
Fall Semester (Fall 1 in August)
Fall is our primary and largest intake for first-year freshmen bachelor students. Applications are open from one year prior to the intended start date.
Earlier applicants benefit from first-round consideration in academic scholarship support and financial aid. While housing is guaranteed for first-year students joining Webster, the rooms are allocated on a first-request basis each year.
Early applications also provide better planning for your family's financial planning and the student visa process.
Priority Application Deadline for International Students (Fall semester): May 1.
Freshman Application Deadline for August 2024 Term: May 15, 2024*
*If places are still available, Freshmen applications may be accepted after May 15. Check Admission Status
With Rolling Admissions, we have no official deadlines for submitting applications. However, if you are coming from outside of Europe and will require a student visa, you should plan to earn admission at least three months prior to your preferred start date. Applicants who submit by May 1 have the best chance to secure their student visa on time.
Most bachelor courses are semester-long courses (16-weeks); however, we also offer a set of eight-week (half-semester) courses that also count toward graduation. This also allows first-time students and transfer students to enroll at one of five entry dates throughout the year.
Master Students
Master-level courses are eight weeks in duration, so courses and topics change often. This allows first-time master students to enroll at several points throughout the year. If you are unsure about your start date, please feel free to reach admissions to discuss the options!
COVID-19 Update: Whenever necessary due to the coronavirus restrictions, whether for student visa processing, temporary travel restrictions, family health or individual quarantine required upon arrivals to Switzerland from specific countries, Webster is providing added flexibility, as follows:
- Courses are currently being delivered in hybrid format; bachelor students can therefore request to begin the courses online if needed, and to join in-person later in the term.
- Students can also defer their initial admissions intake by one eight-week term or one full semester, as necessary, without any obligations, financial risks or penalties.
- An online New Student Orientation option has been made available, to welcome and integrate new students who are temporarily unable to be in the classroom.
- The University will revised its policies about face-to-face learning, as per Swiss Federal and local Geneva mandates or guidelines.
Other Term Start Dates (Oct., Jan., March, May)
You will be prompted by the online application to choose the start date when you want to begin studies.
First-time freshmen students are encouraged to apply for the August start date (Fall semester); however, we also welcome first-year students in October and January, annually.
University transfer students are welcomed for bachelor program admissions during all five terms each year.
Master students are welcome to apply for January and August start dates. Most programs offer admission at other term admissions; please reach us at graduategeneva.admissions@webster.edu if you wish to explore a March, May or October start date, and we'll connect you with the faculty advisor for your program of interest, who can coach you as to the best plan for your studies.
Reminder
When choosing your start date, we recommend that you plan to earn admission about three months prior to your preferred start date if you need a student visa.
Talk With Current Students
Webster Geneva Campus has student ambassadors available for you to chat with from all over the world. Representing the range of majors we offer, they can answer questions on student life inside and outside the classroom.
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Admissions FAQ
Your visa requirement is determined by your residency status. If you currently hold a resident permit allowing full-time residency in Switzerland, you won't need a student visa. Ensure your permit is valid and, if necessary, extend it with local authorities before expiration.
EU or EFTA citizens are exempt from the student visa requirement. During new student orientation, we'll provide an attestation from Webster Geneva Campus and guide you in notifying local authorities of your full-time study status.
However, if you're from a country outside the European Union or EFTA member states, you must apply for a Swiss student visa through the Swiss Embassy or Consulate in your home country or country of legal residence before entering Switzerland. We recommend completing this process before your arrival.
Find detailed information here: Swiss Entry Information
Paris Saint-Germain Academy Pro Partnership
Webster Geneva Campus has a partnership with Paris Saint-Germain Academy Pro Greater Geneva, the official Academy Pro Residency of Paris Saint-Germain in Europe, designed for elite international players. Webster offers Paris Saint-Germain Academy Pro students the chance to participate in an academic program at Webster Geneva Campus, while also training with PSG Academy Pro. This unique combination allows students to pursue their academic and athletic dreams at the same time, without having to compromise on either.